I am a former Christian who has recently moved away from faith in Jesus and Christianity. I would describe my moral compass as culturally Christian, but Agnostic towards the claims that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Hence-the title of my blog.
For those that care to know, I was raised in a devoted Christian family, gave my heart to Jesus when I was 8 years old. Read the Bible regularly and had read most of the Bible by age 12 (King James/ Living Parallel). Got involved with Young Life during high school as a Campaigner. I was a volunteer leader with Young Life my whole 5 years at college. Graduated school and helped plant 2 churches and was a worship leader in 4 churches over the last 20 years. Professionally, I worked 23 years in the Christian Music and Book industry.
You can read a fuller version of my deconversion from Christianity here.
Thanks for reading!
christianagnostic 
I’m not sure what name to call you here on this blog. I know you as “doubtful” on mine. Congratulations on your new enterprise.May it bring you interesting conversations and unexpected challenges along with a joy in the journey.
Dee-
Thanks so much for taking the time to read here…I don’t know how you do it. You take so much flack and yet you and Deb take the time to respond to almost every commenter on TWW. I admire you both.
You can call me doubtful….I’m going to have to combine my internet handle down to Christianagnostic or something. The problem is I began participating on some of the SGM survivor sites 3 years before I lost my faith. Most people know me on the SGM sites as Musicman. Since those sites are more about helping hurting people-I didn’t want to confuse people by changing names or coming across as an outsider agnostic who was there to question their faith.
In reality, I go there to offer encouragement because I know how hard it is, even as a Christian, to transition out of an abusive church. I’ve started linking my site to my name-but I’m still uncomfortable with trying to switch names…anyway, I’m rambling, but I hope you get my drift.
Best regards-CA, Doubtful
Hi CA/MM –
You may have seen me on the same websites were I have followed you as MusicMan. I am a former SG pastor and I would describe myself now as an agnostic. From VanTillian, continuationist, calvinist to … well, not that. All thanks to Sovereign Grace Ministries!
My best friend calls me “de-churched”,
Former SG Pastor
FGSP-
Thanks for stopping by..I totally remember your posts. If and when you care to, I’d be interested to hear more of your journey.
I’ve been a wishy- washy spiritual seeker, a passionate Atheist and now Im an ‘aspirational agnostic’. I’m searching for faith, but theres no way on earth I would ever see the bible as the inerrant word of God. I wonder what role the biblical indoctrination that you were exposed to as a youngster has played in your turn away from Christianity. I think what I’m trying to say is that the brand of Christianity that you were brought up in is just so counter to what I’m finding out much Christianity is about. If things had been more ‘gentle’ would your thought patterns be different?
Just musing….
Eva
You asked
“If things had been more ‘gentle’ would your thought patterns be different?”
Good question, the short answer is no, I don’t think so. You see, I was raised in a very mild form of Evangelical Presbyterianism. I had a few bad experiences, but they were very mild compared to the constant threats and physical discipline that other Christian children experienced. I just didn’t have many fears (other than the hell incidient I write about) associated with growing up Christian.
I was allowed to listen to secular radio and records, watch whatever I wanted on TV. My Christian experience in high school was Young Life. In short, I had a lot of freedom and Christianity wasn’t forced upon me, it fascinated me and I was a willing follower from age 8. I loved the thought of a loving Father always looking out for me. I loved the idea of Jesus coming and teaching love, standing up to evil, and his willingness to lay down his life in love.
But it didn’t prepare me for life and the university of hard knocks…it also doesn’t make the ugly parts of the Christian faith and the Bible go away.
I feel like I’m starting to ramble, but I hope I’ve answered some of your question.
Thanks for the comment and for stopping by.
When you get the chance, I’d love to hear why you are searching out faith again?
Hmmm. From my point of view, the very word ‘evangelical’ rings alarm bells for me and I immediately think the opposite of gentle. There are certain givens in it, from my understanding (which is limited) that it involves being ‘saved’ and biblical literalism, that bothers me. Now I think I’m spending rude; I just think that you probably had a really hard time without realizing it!
While I’m being rude anyway, if you are interested in reading about my search, a guest post that I did recently sums it all up pretty well. http://tamaraoutloud.com/2012/03/19/guest-post-whispers-on-the-road/
I’m going to keep reading your old posts now 🙂
Eva
Eva-
You are in no way rude! Please feel free to speak your mind as you see it…..
CA
You said
“From my point of view, the very word ‘evangelical’ rings alarm bells for me and I immediately think the opposite of gentle.”
You know…I think that is a very fair description. It got me thinking about your original question, about whether I would have the same outcome if I had been raised in a different type of Christian faith. I mean, would I have sunk so much effort and money into the Christian life if I had been raised in a Lutheran or Quaker friends type of setting? I guess I don’t know…you’ve got me thinking….thanks again for the question.
I will certainly take the time to check out your post…
The church that I rocked up to on last year when I decided to take the plunge and ‘go to church’- that’s the sort of church that I think may have been more helpful that dangerous. It’s small, it members spend lots of time helping other in the community ( with no side order of evangelism), there are several well liked and respected lesbians ( who even have children- gasp!!) on the church committee and the one time a man got up to talk about a creationist DVD he wanted to show, there was a lots of shuffling of feet and clearing of throats, and after it ( not the dvd, the proposal) the minister whispered to me ‘don’t worry, that doesn’t happen often’.
I must get round to going back, actually….
Eva
Eva-
Just got the chance to read your guest post and the comments. I certainly appreciate your honesty to check out the Christian faith for your self.
It seems to me, that you’ve enjoyed the community of church and the sense of mission that comes from community. But your still not sure about many of the truth claims of the Bible.
Is that a fair statement?
I don’t believe the Bible is true. Elements of the New Testament, only one or two generations away from the source, maybe. But not the Old Testament.
I’ve read the Bible from cover to cover ( took me two months. Judges and Kings almost did me in, let me tell you!) and appreciated it in many forms but I know too much about science, for example, to make the mistake of believing it. Also, the God of the Old Testament is an absolute B*** tard, and I’ll be happy to taken that up with him one day if the occasion comes. I would run screaming if THAT was what I was basing my faith on. But fortunately, I have the cultural background that means that Ive never been expected to accept the truth claims of Bible. If I was expected to believe that as as a matter of course, I’d not be an ‘aspirational agnostic’. Id be hanging out with Richard Dawkins and wishing Hitchens was still with us.
🙂
Eva
Hello to theaspirationalagnostic,
I’m wishing Hitchens was still here under any circumstances. Can’t tell you how much I miss the guy. More than any other person who’s passed on, really.
I’m off to your blog. Your comments have garnered my interest.
About the inerrancy of the bible. I’m taking Yale’s OCW courses on religious studies, and the professor states the bible never claims to be inerrant. People say that on its behalf.
I wish more and more preachers will read this but then again it might not make any difference to them.
I will say I understand how you feel to an extent as I have suffered a lot in the hands of many a pastor and was so close to losing the faith that was till I decided to know God for myself. I was even a pastor at one point.
Like you I believe the bible IS the final authority and gave myself to studying it the best I could only to discover that quite a number of things taught in much of today’s church cannot be found in it! I also identify with you on the university of hard knocks bit, the way Christianity was presented to me did not prepare me for that either.
Anyways, I hope you find what it is you seek.
Thanks EIC…you are the second or third former pastor whose been reading and commenting recently. Thanks again for dropping by!
Eva-
“I’ve read the Bible from cover to cover ( took me two months. Judges and Kings almost did me in, let me tell you!) and appreciated it in many forms but I know too much about science, for example, to make the mistake of believing it. ”
I chuckled as I read this, not because you are funny, but because you seem so sane in your approach to the Bible. For me, I used to spend hours trying to reconcile the “Inerrant” word of God with the horrors of the OT. As for science, it actually hindered my understanding of science, because I was constantly trying to defend the Bible teaching of a 7 day creation and a 6,000 year old earth.
You see, I did make the mistake of beleiving it….sorry to say 😦
Thats the problem with the church you were in; once you reached adulthood and realised that you had a questioning mind, you had to either become the master of cognitive dissonance or leave, enduring a huge crisis of faith and a collapse of the world as you knew it. Which just isn’t fair, given the wonderful things faith can offer. Bugger.
I’ve read part 1 of your recent post. It is so well-written, and I don’t really know what else to say until I’ve read part 2, so I won’t. It’s an outstanding blog you have. We discussed the Bible book store a bit.
Thanks Donald…hopefully, part 2 will be up in a few days.
Ahh, I’m glad I stopped by here. I’ve been confusing you with theaspirationalagnostic for some time now. o.O
I changed my site to something bare minimal, as I was getting complaints about the other one. I still use it–it’s my personal portal to my favorite places on the net, as well as my study journals. But, nobody really cares about any of that, so now I have a blog with little on it. Ah, well. Nobody will notice the difference. (You can probably tell that I’m feeling very optimistic and chipper right now.)
Thanks for placing the link to my blog on yours. Occasionally I’ve seen the name of your blog come up on my stats, but no one has left a comment. I thought perhaps you were stopping but but not writing anything. I’m all about comments. I mean I like to have a few online friends and stay in touch with them. So far that isn’t going very well, actually.
Anyway, just thought I’d say “hey.” My most recent post (the one no one commented on) is about Thomas Aquinas’s Summa Theologica. I didn’t place it on there for religious reason–just for reasons of learning about new things and understanding different ideas.
Anyhow, drop by and drop a line some time.
I will do that…I’ve been on vacation and haven’t been online as much. But I do often enjoy what you’ve written.
Hey! I’ve been blogging about struggling with my faith for some time on my blog, and I wanted to know if you’d like to go a guest post? I stumbled upon your blog a few months ago, and a lot of things you say resonate with me, even though I can’t say I’ve totally left Christianity.
Anyway, just wanted to ask that, and tell you thanks for running this. 🙂
crissamj-
Thanks for the offer…I’m always open to writing for other folks blogs. I’ll drop you an email and you can let me know what you were thinking, if that’s cool with you?
Let me know….
CA
You’ve got mail….
got it…I’m going to delete this so you don’t get any unwanted emails.
ChristianAgnostic –
I can’t tell you how grateful I am for finding your blog. My family and I agree wholeheartedly with all of your views on YoungLife. My name is Niki, I’m a senior at a university in Richmond, Virginia and am currently writing a speech about YoungLife for my Speech/Journalism class. I was wondering if I could quote a couple of lines from your blog. I was also wondering if I could have your name to attach it to the quote. If not, I completely understand. Thanks so much
Thanks for the comment and the request….I just sent an email concerning your request.
I really appreciate your blog. You bring up very good points to think about, & you just speak of experiences without being preachy or telling people what to think! This approach makes you much more credible in my opinion.
Do you (or anyone else on here) have any experience with Capernum? Apparently it is a division of YL for kids with disabilities. I am wondering if you volunteer for them if you are recruited to join Young Life, or if the same questionable tactics are in place. Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks for your comment and the compliments!
As for Capernum, I have no experience with this side of Young Life. I always heard wonderful things about it when I was a leader, but never had the chance to be involved.
I’ll have to defer to someone else to fill us in on whether it uses similar tactics or is somehow different in it’s outreach to people with disabilities.
Thanks for responding! If anyone out there has ANY info, it would be GREATLY appreciated!!
Hello AC!
Your story is similar to mine. I was never involved to the degree that were (working in a Christian bookstore and doing church plant work) but I was heavily involved in my local church for several years and influenced my step-daughters into extremely devout roles today. I came out of the agnostic closet at age 35 (I am 44 now) and I also experienced the varied emotions that you describe. My friends were stunned, my family – well, my mother especially – devastated. My children, particularly the step-daughters, wanted to know what happened, what I believed, and what it meant for them. They remained steadfast in their faith and I am happy to say I did not pull them away from that.
I could go on and on about my history but what I want to say is that it seems, and please correct me if I’m wrong, that you still carry some heartache over losing your faith. Is that true? For me it was a breaking away to freedom. No more heavy guilt for being imperfect, no more judgement of those who didn’t believe the way I do, and no more burden of saving a world that I cannot save.
A few years after my move from Christianity I discovered the teachings of Joseph Campbell, in particular his infamous “hero’s journey.” I realized that my calling in life is to that different path, and the error I made was in living for so long according to the dictates of others. I now live according to what I think is right, with a mind toward civility, fairness, kindness, and diplomacy. I have no ill regard for Christians, no more than I do for any culture that is what it is. As an agnostic I simply do-not-know, and what I believe to be true does not make it true any more than someone else’s beliefs make them right.
Today I truly rejoice, and do not fear the afterlife which I do still believe in. The complexity of the lives we live is far beyond the simple dogma of our limited intellect. Thank god for that! 😉
Thanks for your comment….I’m always itnterested to hear the stories of others similar to mine.
I have a couple questions, but they’ll have to wait. I have a birthday party for my youngest to attend!
Thanks again and I’ll talk to you soon…
I look forward to it, and apologies for using “AC” when it should have been “CA” – had that problem since I was a child.
emperort-
you said
No…the heartache isn’t over having lost my faith, it’s the heartache of realizing how much time has been lost by being absolutely committed to something that is not true.
I lost a lot of time, money, and freinds to my faith and I am still coming to grips with that reality…
Hi CA,
I see. I understand what you mean about the sense of lost time, though I often look at my own background and see that some good came from it. I am patient with others who have beliefs that are different from mine, even if they don’t have the same courtesy, because I understand the trappings of religious thinking. It’s scary to think about the fervor some religious people have, and to what extent they will go to enforce their beliefs, but at the same time there are a lot of “believers” of one type or another who don’t have the support or self-devised means to escape the fear they have of disbelief. One of the pleasant things to come out of my experience was the continuation of love I received from a few (very few) of my former church acquaintances who were less concerned about my falling away from the church and more concerned with continuing our friendship.
It seems we’ve fallen out of touch, again. Entirely my fault. In the past, when my blog has begun flat-lining, I’ve pulled the blog. Then I eventually change my mind and start another one.
I’m a reformed man, though. Now I have one that I’m sticking with. I hope you’ll check it out. It’s a network called Great Books Group. You’re just the kind of person I’m hoping will join. I based the group on the Great Books model that some colleges have. I have two WordPress sites set up for it and a G+ Community. Right now there are two dedicated members. If you sign on, that will make it three. It’s only a couple of weeks old. Three would be a great start. Dozens of people have joined, but once I saw that they were group joiners only, I deleted them from the role. There are a couple of G+ Communities that have over 100,000 “members.” People like signing up for free stuff.
http://greatbooksgroup.wordpress.com/
Donald-
Good to see you again….you had some great ideas going with your blogs. Glad to see you’re back….I’ll check out your site soon!
After I wrote my comment on your blog, I decided to place my comment as a post on mine. It lost some context, but it got a couple of responses, so I suppose it turned out all right.
ChristianAgnostic,
Had a chance to review your background and read some of your posts. Fascinating stuff. Never really met anyone who’s migrated from Christianity to agnosticism but seeing as how you had the misfortune of being involved with two cults (YoungLife and SGM) I find myself thinking, “Geez, no wonder this dude became agnostic.”
My question for you is: Isn’t there a part of you that’s even minimally concerned about the whole ‘hell’ thing? That’s not meant to be a rhetorical question or a preamble to some kind of evangelistic pitch or a “love bomb” or whatever. I’m genuinely curious.
You’ve been brutally honest about your assessment of Christianity so I’ll do the same. I’m a Christian and buy into the whole package. Young earth, Noah’s Ark, inerrancy of scripture. I’m totally on board. I’ve gotta say though, the whole concept of eternity, whether it be in heaven or hell, bums me out to no end. It haunts me every day.
When Christians talk about the weaknesses of the atheist and/or agnostic position, they always bring up the utter despair that atheists must feel about the finality of death. Even articles written by atheists acknowledge this despair. But between you and me, I’m thinking, “Why the sadness? This is one of atheism’s primary *benefits*! When you’re dead, your dead. What wonderful freedom. No need to think about the endlessness of heaven and the tortures of hell? Where do I sign up?” I can’t help but think that atheism, or at least agnosticism, would make me a more relaxed person overall. If it weren’t for the hell bit, I’m tempted to think I’d jump ship in a heartbeat. I totally see the appeal of the atheist perspective…
and yet…I have to think…
There must be some part of you that wonders if you made the right decision. You don’t think about hell at all? Seriously? It’s gotta be nagging at you at least a little bit, no?
Chad-
Really thoughtful questions…I need to surrender my computer to a kid needing to do homework.
Let me stew a bit and reply back with my thoughts on your questions.
Thanks-CA
Chad…you got your own post!
Hi Christianagnostic. Question – can you tell me how to remove a comment I made earlier? I was not logged in but I can provide the email address used. Thanks
Sure….I don’t have a remove/edit function for comments by readers(I haven’t paid for the upgrade yet…).
If you can let me know which post and comment, I’d be happy to remove it and these comments referring to it.
Thanks-CA
duh…still waking up. Just email me at christianagnostic@rocketmail.com and let me know what you need done and I’ll do it.
Christiananagnostic, I recently posted this reply (below) to one of your articles about Young Life and it’s possibly cultic tactics. I’m sorry for posting it here if you’ve already read it, but I just wanted you to see my opinion on the topic and maybe have a discussion about it. Thanks!
I’m sorry for replying on such an old post, I honestly have no idea if this post is still going, but since I found it, there might be a chance that someone else will, so I want to contribute my story of how Young Life has affected me.
First off- I understand that while Young Life may be a great thing in my area, somewhere else it could have cult-like qualities and leaders who aren’t actually doing any good for these kids. I’m not saying that every area Young Life is doing good things, because I don’t know that. I only truly know what’s happening around me.
I grew up in a Christian home, but we never went to church. I was always told by my parents that they wanted my opinions on religion to be my own beliefs and not something that someone else has forced me to believe.
I’ve been going to my area Young Life club for three years now. I’ve been to Young Life camp once. I knew one of my leaders as a child, but never really knew her until she was one of my leaders. From Young Life, I’m been baptized into a really great non-denominational church that doesn’t necessarily preach, but gives you a discussion that you can formulate your own opinions on and decide what you believe. I’ve gained a few really great friends who are in my campaigners group. In our weekly Young Life club and campaigners meetings, things aren’t pushed onto us. We’re encouraged to learn more about who God is, and most importantly, who He is to us. Any person who chooses to leave Young Life, and there are a few, is still accepted and loved. It’s not like we do anything weird like pray for them to come back to us or anything, we just accept that they made a choice that was right for them.
Also, my Young Life leaders don’t necessarily “love-bomb” us. They show an interest in what we do outside of school, and that interest is genuine.
Another topic that was brought up was that some Young Life clubs look for the popular, good-looking kids to promote their message at school and being in more people. At my Young Life, nobody is really encouraged to go out and bring in somebody. People who come come on their own. Some weeks we have as many as 100 kids for club. Anybody is brought in for a skit or game, it’s not limited to just the popular good-looking kids.
All in all, I’m just trying to say that Young Life has been a really great thing in my life. I’ve joined a great, loving, and accepting church and have made a few really great lasting relationships with people. Most importantly, I’ve started having a really great relationship with God, and it’s something I want to pursue throughout my life. I’m not saying I want to become a Young Life leader and work at camps during the summer, but that’s just because that’s not for me. I understand that some Young Life groups can be a bad influence on kids, and that does upset me. Young Life can be a really great thing, but if it’s done badly, it could be the opposite.
So weird. After over 24 years away from YL, I was randomly and without prompting contacted out of the blue by my former YL leader and a huge influence in my life today, and while contemplating a reply, or whether or not to reply, I came across this blog, which stopped me cold in my tracks … And I was able to relate immediately to the pressures almost subconsciously forced upon a young and vulnerable person. Only it is worse. I could tell many stories. I witnessed, and was involved in a tragic death at a YL camp while working as a volunteer over 20 years ago, and the pressure and tactics used on me to try to keep me quiet because publicity of the death could harm the camps and negatively affect the YL mission was unforgivable. I don’t have an answer …
Well this is an interesting little blog. While I’m intrigued by your choice to leave the faith– you know very well what is right. After knowing God and having a relationship with Him, there’s no “going back”. There is choosing the world, which is what you have chosen to do- which saddens me after you have had so many years of serving Him. I know we have a sinful and carnal nature- which is why you made this decision- but condemning a relationship with God, or Christianity in general, will not make any conviction go away. We have two options here- say yes to God, unshakable joy and happiness, true love, and hope–or, say no, and choose a life of searching for that missing piece, filled with sadness, anger, lonliness, and confusion. When you fully commit to a relationship with God, the search is over. I’m speaking from personal experience, and years of watching others take the leap of faith before I made the choice. You know what I mean. My prayer for you is that you will have the courage to say no to the world, and yes to the goodness and love of God. Thanks, wishing you the best!
eburg31
Well, this is an interesting little comment you have left.
I am intrigued by the absolute certainty in which you know so much about me and my motives for the choices I’ve made in life.
For the record, the reason I have chosen to not believe in Christianity has nothing to do with me choosing the world and it’s carnal pleasures.
I do not believe because I do not find credible evidence that the Bible is the word of God.
You can talk all you want about “full commitment” so the that the “search is over”. But to me that, that just seems like a way of avoiding hard questions about the Scriptures from which Christian faith is based on. I think you know what I mean….
I disagree with your two choice dilemma. If believing in God is such an unshakable experience of love, joy and happiness-then why do so many Christians suffer with doubt, confusion, and a profound sense of being alone and depressed?
Lastly, not believing in God has been a huge relief filled with peace of mind and much less stress. I am no longer groping in prayer and Bible devotions, trying to figure out God’s will about issues that the Bible are contradictory or are completely silent. The Bible is not a very good manual for living life ethically. Laying it to rest was the #1 best decision in my life.
Young Life caught violating rights.
http://www.insidebainbridge.com/tag/evangelicals-recruit-woodward-and-bhs-students/
Hi
I just noticed your blog and especially that you are the same person who commented as “Music Man” on SGM Survivors and I think also SGM Refuge. I remember your comments and they were a sad account of a church expansion.
Anyway I thought I would say hi. I still comment on Survivors (been following that blog since its beginning). There isn’t that much activity there these days.
If nothing else both the Survivors & now shut down SGM Refuge blog provided a lot of exposure for when the documents came out in July 2011 showing all the sin and hypocrisy within Sovereign Grace Ministries. What was even sadder was the leadership’s response to what was exposed.
Perhaps the two blogs served their main purpose of exposure.
Okaaaaayyy … so they sprayed a few weeds, possibly even got rid of some. But no big deal—there’s always more sprouting.
Is there an answer? Yes … but it’s a bit unpalatable to most. Certainly suicidal in the Bible Belt(s).
Hi CA! I read this post about Young Life: https://christianagnostic.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/is-young-life-a-cult-young-life-leaders-behind-the-smile/
And I was wondering if you could also connect me with commenter, Emily, so I can hear more about her experience. I am currently working on a project to expose the dark side of the organization and am looking for different sources to provide their perspective on it. Thank you!