I think this an incredibly sad example of how faith divides familes, friends, and even whole communities. I won’t offer much commentary, but I wonder what your thoughts are when your read a story like this…
I’m still getting a ton of hits from folks searching for info on Young Life. Just wanted to highlight a new post over at Young Life Watch.
One of my bone of contentions, is Young Life’s lack of honesty. What I mean is this, Young Life is an Evangelical Christian outreach to teens. Their goal is to win an audience with teens and convert them to an Evangelical form of Christianity. The problem is, that Young Life leaders are often coached to be vague with non-Christians. In other words, hiding their true intent to convert teens. This is deceitful, in my opinion.
Let me give you an example of what I mean. The following are two quotes from a Young Life Leadership manual published in 2008…,
“How would you explain Young Life?
Christian: Young Life is a Christian outreach to adolescents.
Non Christian: Young Life is a non-profit that connects caring adults with kids.Christian: Young Life is a ministry that shares Christ with kids through relationships and helps them grow in their faith.
Non Christian: Young…
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Future Mad Scientist, DB…Responds to Creflo Dollar and the Issue of Spanking
14 JunIn my last post (which you can find here), I commented briefly, that Creflo Dollar is claiming that he did not hit and choke his 15-year-old daughter, he only spanked her.
Future mad scientist DB had this to say
First, as a still-Christian, the rod is symbolic of parental authority not permission to beat your kids.
Second, why is everyone up in arms because of her age? Why is it ok to beat little kids but spare older kids? No one should be hit period.
One of the things I regret as a result of my time in the same cultish church as our dear host is that I ever physically assaulted my children.
Nothing will take away that shame and regret.
What you may not know about DB and christianagnostic, is that we used to go to the same church. In fact, we used to go to the same small group, at this church.
It was at this church that I was first exposed to the teachings of Gary Ezzo. DB approached our pastors about some concerns she had with the Ezzo and his parenting advice. They kicked her and her family out of the church and forbid anyone to speak to her. They shunned her family for merely asking them to justify these extreme parenting ideas. You can read DB’s story about these events here.
So there’s a little context as to why DB and I fell so strongly against spanking. It’s because we were parenting young children at a church that encouraged parents to spank at almost any infraction and at any age.
In the parenting classes I attended, we were instructed to begin disciplining children as young as 3 months old. And when I say discipline, I mean we were specifically taught to flick a baby’s backside if they were crying and showing their “sinful” nature. All of this was according to Mr. Ezzo and our pastoral staff, the “Biblical” way to raise “Godly” children. This same pastor, went so far as to suggest that we NOT take our children to any doctor that would inspect their backsides for marks, because then the doctor might be obligated to report suspected abuse.
He went on to say he could recommend a Dr. who “understood” Biblical discipline and was always careful to never inspect children’s backsides for bruising.
If you’re sitting here with your mouth now open and wondering if anyone actually followed this advice….I’m sorry to report that I witnessed young babies being “flicked” for crying too much. As a parent of a toddler, I had been encouraged to begin spanking with a foot long glue stick. Yes, a glue stick. I was told that it ensured that pain was felt and that it left very little bruising.
Now call me crazy, but this sort of teaching is all about control through violence and intimidation, not discipline. And you want to know the other side of it. It doesn’t work….I could list family after family that used to follow this regime, believing that they were raising “Godly “children that would never rebel or disobey (yes-they actually pitched this as a way to insure that you did not ever have rebellious children). Only to have major issues with their children.
I actually attempted to follow this parenting model, but just couldn’t. It seemed so wrong and harsh. As a new parent, I didn’t realize that it wasn’t just harsh, it was abuse. We chucked it pretty soon into it and decided we didn’t care what our church thought. But I still have regret for ever giving heed to such an abusive outlook and it has weighed heavy on me, at times. Once I realized how awful it had been, I would cry (almost uncontrollably) at how adversarial I had been to my own children. They were young and tender, and I was assuming the worst of their tiny hearts.
So when it comes to spanking, I say “Buyer Beware”.
You might be able to control your children in the short-term with such tactics, but you could be sowing seeds of resentment that could last a lifetime.
Creflo Dollar Denies Choking and Slapping Daughter…It was Only a Spanking?
12 JunI was never into the Word of Faith movement, so I don’t usually follow or comment on the semi-regular scandals that seem to bubble to the surface now and then.
As for the latest, Creflo Dollar is the on the hot seat, after his 15 year old daughter called 911 and said her father had choked her and slapped her. Her 19 year old sister backed up her story and an investigation is ongoing. You can read a brief news report on the incident here.
I guess what stood out for me, was that while Pastor Dollar denies choking and slapping his daughter, he apparently admits that all he did was wrestle her to the ground and spank her.
Wait a second, that’s your explanation? That’s your defense? That it was just a little spat that ended with you ( a 50 year old man) wrestling your 15 year old to the ground and spanking her?
I don’t know about you, but the spanking of a 15 year old seems like grounds for possible abuse. I have 2 teens close to that age and I would never dream of slapping them, let alone wrestling to the ground and spanking them…this whole thing is wrong at it’s core.
If I were one of Pastor Dollar’s 30,000 congregants, I would want to know how he justifies spanking a child that old.
Wouldn’t you?
Is Young Life a Cult ? Introducing….Young Life Watch
11 JunWhen I started this blog, I had no idea what I’d be writing about and how people would respond. Overall, I’ve found that I love to write and genuinely enjoy the folks who take the time to comment and add to the discussion.
One of my big surprises, has been the huge amount of hits due to Google searches on Young Life. In fact, the number one search engine phrase that people use when clicking to the christianagnostic is “Young Life Cult” or some similar phrasing. It seems, that there are a lot of people with questions about Young Life, but there are not a lot of places on the web that discuss the ministry with candor.
Since the focus of my blog is not exclusive to Young Life, I’ve set up a separate blog called Young Life Watch. All of my older posts dealing with Young Life can be found there, and hopefully, it can be a place where people with questions or insight to Young Life can go and discuss the relevant issues.
If you have story to tell, or a question about Young Life, please click on over and add to the discussion!
Biblical Law, American Law, and the Debate Over Gay Marriage
1 JunIt seems inevitable, whenever I read a Christian perspective on Gay Marriage that God’s Law will be invoked. It’s usually invoked with a “slam dunk” sort of statement. You know, that “God’s Law clearly states homosexuality as a sin” sort of argument. Since homosexuality is clearly stated as a sin in God’s Law, then Gay marriage should be off the table. You can see an example of this type of discussion here.
But there is a problem with this argument, even from a Biblical viewpoint….let me explain.
Biblical Pick ‘N’ Pull
There is a problem with invoking God’s Law as support for issues of American Law. First off, there’s the constitutional issue of religious neutrality. Most Christians skirt this issue without much thought, so I won’t waste my time on that one.
The main problem for arguing that God’s Law should apply to American Law, is that according to God’s Law, you are required to follow every jot and tittle. Not just the laws that you like.
So in the case of homosexuality, it is most clearly condemned in the book of Leviticus. I have seen it referred to many times when Christians discuss Gay marriage. But here’s the rub. Leviticus clearly condemns homosexuality as an abomination, deserving of death by stoning. Do Christians really want to apply the full force of Biblical Law to American Law? If not, than why not?
To be fair, some Christians do think we should be executing Gays…but it seems most Christians adopt a much lesser version of disapproval. Most invoke a type of “love the sinner, hate the sin” type of ethos and would never dream of actually killing Gays. They say God will take care of that in the afterlife, if they don’t repent.
The other issue, is one of consistency. What about other laws in the Bible ? Shouldn’t they be regarded as well? Leviticus 19:37 says ‘Keep all my decrees and all my laws and follow them. I am the Lord.’ If we are to be consistent, then we are obligated to follow all of God’s law, not just the ones that support arguments against Gay marriage.
Here’s just a few…
Men can not clip their sideburns (I guess Elvis was on to something)
No one can ever consume pork or shellfish (There goes the roadside diner)
No one can work on the Sabbath (Oh, and the penalty for this is death)
Children who curse their parents are to be stoned ( Stoned with rocks, not weed…)
Rapists are to be punished, by forcing them to pay the victims dowry and marry their victim (don’t think this is the type of Biblical courtship that most women have in mind)
I could go on with a couple dozen more verses that I suspect, very few Christians would actually want as American Law. If you don’t believe me, go check out the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and then get back to me.
All or Nothing
It seems to me the scriptures are clear. You can not apply a pick n pull approach. Either you obey all of the law or none at all. You can not argue that God’s Law should apply and then make exceptions that do not suit you. That’s why I find it intellectually lazy when Christians do so.
It’s all or nothing…and I find that most Christians would rather be called pagans than be forced to obey all of God’s Law. As the New Testament declares, the law was a burden that neither they nor their forefathers could bear.
If this is the case, then why should homosexuals be forced to obey God’s law?
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